November 10, 2020

Today my special guest is Karyn Savory, Owner & Creative Director of Sweet and Savory Designs and we are going to be talking all things design, and branding and learning some of the insider tips and tricks and what to expect when working with a graphic designer.
Karen Savory is a design connoisseur with a food fetish. She helps restaurants and food & beverage companies create top-shelf visual brands that directly impact both the vitality of the business and the bottom line. Using visionary thinking, a commitment to excellence, and a deep understanding of the industry, she can create everything a delicious brand requires.

Sari 0:04
I'm Sari Kimbell and I've done just about everything in the food industry. I have helped hundreds of packaged food business entrepreneurs and now I want to help you make your delicious dream a reality. Whether you want to be successful at farmer's markets, online, or wholesale on the store shelves, Food Business Success is your secret ingredient. I will show you how to avoid an expensive hobby, and instead run a profitable food business. Now let's jump.

Hey there, everyone. Welcome to the Food Business Success podcast. And today I have a special guest, we are going to be talking all things design, and branding and learning some of the insider tips and tricks and what to expect when working with a graphic designer. So I'm really excited to talk with my colleague and friend and personal designer that I love to work with in Food Business Success with we're going to be talking to Karyn Savory today. And Karyn describes herself as a design connoisseur with a food fetish. She helps restaurants and food and beverages create top shelf visual brands that directly impact the vitality of the business and the bottom line. She's got amazing visionary thinking and a commitment to excellence and a real deep knowledge of the industry. So she can really help create everything that a brand needs to succeed visually and communicate their brand. So welcome, Karyn.

Karyn Savory 1:45
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Sari.

Sari 1:47
It's great to have you here. And I should say that you are the founder, owner, creative director, you wear all the hats of Sweet and Savory Designs. And you're here in Colorado with me. But obviously, you are not limited to Colorado by any.

Karyn Savory 2:07
Not at all. Take me around the world.

Sari 2:11
Yeah, totally. Anything you want around the world? Well, tell us about that that bio a little bit, because that's the high level. But I love you have such a fun, fun name. And I think you've used that to your advantage. So tell us a little bit more about you and about Sweet and Savory Designs.

Karyn Savory 2:32
Yeah, of course. So yeah, I started Sweet and Savory Designs last year. So it's been quite an exciting ride. I'm absolutely the direction I knew I needed to go in life and I couldn't, couldn't be happier. So yeah, there's definitely more of a fun story behind my name. Obviously, it does have to do with my last name being Savory. But more than just that the crazy thing is that my grandma's maiden name was Sweet.

Sari 3:02
Okay, it's like you were made for food.

Karyn Savory 3:04
Exactly. It it was just

Sari 3:05
You were born into this.

Karyn Savory 3:05
It was I was meant to be. Absolutely. So I, I mean, along with my love for food, and travel and culture. I just feel like it all combined so perfectly. And I mean, what else could I do? It's so funny, because I'm back in college. You know, I went to school for graphic design and, and we had some design firm come in and talk to us. And this guy asked a question, raise my hand and he asked me my name. So I told him Karyn Savory and he's like, oh, Savory, as a tasty name, you should definitely you know, get involved with the with the food industry. I'm like, Well, wait, that's not it like, so I told him that my grandma's My name is Sweet. And he's like, Alright, you absolutely have to do that. Um, but at the time, I just didn't really get what he was trying to tell me. I was like, I'm here studying graphic design, why would I want to get into the food industry? Um, didn't really make that connection until exactly like, I don't wanna I don't want to own a restaurant or anything like that. But finally, it hit me like, two years ago that no, I can be a designer for that industry. And really just stick to my passion and help the people in that amazing industry. So that's, that's kind of where Sweet and Savory Designs began. So I couldn't be happier there.

Sari 4:34
Yeah, well, congratulations on making the leap into entrepreneurship and kind of combining all of those loves and entreprenuership is a journey and there's ups and downs, but you are at least in charge of your ship, right?

Karyn Savory 4:52
Yes, that is absolutely one of the big reasons why I started and I just love also the relationship with my clients. I felt like that was something I was starting to lose throughout my career and to be able to jump off and start my own company, I have control, and I have the ability to be that person that to have those one on one conversations and really build those relationships with my clients. And that's what I enjoy the most, for sure.

Sari 5:18
Yeah, I love that. Well, you are really fun to work with. And so I wanted to have you on, and we're gonna kind of dive into some, some pieces around graphic design and branding. And so we'll just jump right into the conversation. So at a high level. So, you know, well, I'll just back up and say, when I, when I talk with early stage entrepreneurs, people who just have an idea, there's usually two camps, either people really get that, that this is really, really important. Sometimes they go out and hire, you know, really expensive, just like they go all in to the branding stuff. Right? Like, yeah, like to say, that's the fun, sexy part, right?

Karyn Savory 6:11
To an extent, yes.

Sari 6:10
Like, doing the logo and the packaging, and the colors, and all of that fun stuff. So either they go really deep in and and, and sometimes they haven't actually dealt with, like, the business side of things, and like, can they actually be profitable? And where will they make this product and all of that. So sometimes, yeah, people go away on all the way in, which is great, there's nothing wrong with that. But I do think you need a nice balance of both. And then, and then other times, people are just like, what? My, you know, my brother, we made this on Canva, my brother in law draws a little or my niece is studying graphic design. And, um, so I find that there's kind of two spaces where people end up and, and so somehow, either one of those, I kind of have to, like, be like, No, no, we really need to talk about the how important a logo is, and in your brand identity is. But that said, I don't think you need to, like, you know, most of my money my people are listening here are bootstrapping, and, you know, every penny counts. So I think, yeah, it's got to be a nice balance of like, No, you don't need to pay, you know, $15,000 for big brand agency, right? To do these things. And no, we do need to uplevel our game a little bit from the Canva logo that we made in there. So So

Karyn Savory 6:28
I would agree there.

Sari 6:48
tell me a little about, yeah. Why? Why do you feel like it is important to hire designer? Why is branding important? Tell me a little bit about that. The process.

Karyn Savory 8:02
So I mean, branding, just in general, a lot of people just think that it's your logo. And but it's so much more than that, honestly, your brand is pretty much it is the most powerful piece of the business. And ultimately the lifeblood behind your product or your service that allows you to live grow, and evolve, you know, with, with your customers, your community with your values and your mission. So it's way more than just a name and a logo. So we have to really think about it how, how are your customers experiencing your brand, ultimately, they're the ones that define your brand, not your logo, not the pieces you've put together, though the colors, the fonts and everything related, do go into play on how your customers experience it. So I think that's the biggest piece with branding and why it's so important. It's it's so much more than just the logo. So to you need to just, it's a big investment, it's one of the most important investments you can make in your business. So though you may have a son or a daughter in design school, just getting started and you'd love them to help you out, there's just a lot to really consider that maybe they haven't learned yet. And even if you have a friend, that's a designer, just make sure that they align with your mission, your values and the quality that you hope to achieve. So I just think that's, that's where you should really start. You don't need, like you said to spend $15,000 on a rebrand but just know that it's it's probably more than 50 bucks on Fiverr or Upwork to really

Sari 9:45

Karyn Savory 9:46
I mean, those are great places for contract work. I just feel like there's so much more that goes behind it. That you just really need to stick up for yourself and your product, your brand and get it done right first time.

Sari 10:01
And I love that you mentioned, you know, well, branding, being so much bigger than a logo. I mean, I tend to think of it as like, well, just like you said that it's the mission and the values and your customer promise behind the personality, that personality and, and I don't know that even when you do work with a designer, not all of them really actually dig into those pieces. So make sure when you are working with a designer, I mean, that's something we do in Food Business Success, take you through some branding exercises and marketing, you know, those those customer, target customer work worksheets and dig into that, but that's such a critical piece. And, you know, I like to say like, sometimes you're your target customer, but sometimes you're not. And so, designing a logo based on or a brand based on what you like, may not be the best, the best exercise are going to really be the best thing for your brand.

Unknown Speaker 11:03
Yes, that's great point. And a lot of people forget that. So, right, absolutely, you need to think of your customer and your audience first, not what you like. Obviously, you want to be proud of it. But it may not be your style.

Sari 11:18
It's funny, I've worked with some clients, and when we there's there's times when we present the, you know, the the concepts, and it's like, at first they're like, Whoa, that is not where I want to go, I don't like that, you know, we hear I hear the things and then then they kind of sit with a little bit and I kind of we talk we like go back to the beginning. Remember our customer. Remember our identity, just because that's not your favorite color? Doesn't mean it doesn't align with your customer. And so oftentimes, they'll kind of sit with it a couple days, and then they'll come back and say, No, I see where you're going with that. And then we can make adjustments. So that is something that they enjoy looking at, of course. I don't want you hate that. But but I think it's so important to keep that piece in mind. Yeah,

Karyn Savory 12:10
Yeah, I think that's a huge, you know, piece of, of our businesses, and one of our big goals is ultimately educating, because so many people don't know about these pieces, and why, you know, that color might not work or, or anything like that. So we, as professionals need to educate them on that and just hold their hand through the process, be there, listen to them, but also chime in when we feel like there's something that needs to be heard. And just really give as, as productive feedback as possible, and also, making sure that they're understanding.

Sari 12:50
Right, right. And this is an area I feel strongly that you should hire an expert there are, you know, probably four or five places that I feel like, especially when you're up leveling your business, and I'll just say, you know, when you're starting out as like a cottage food, you're starting at the farmers market, you know, you're just testing an idea. You know, if if you need to start with the Avery label and the Canva, and maybe you don't even have a logo, you just, you know, it's all type and that's fine, like, get it out there. I'm all for that. But when you're ready to go on the store shelves, to go on, you know, online on to Amazon, anything like that you really are gonna have to come in with a strong brand and, and you can add to those, but I always call it the you know, the three C's and first we have to like connect with our audience, we have to get them to actually even pull that product off the shelf. And then we need to you know, we need to convert them and and that will what's on the package is actually what's going to help put that into the grocery cart or the online cart. Either one but you know you're not there anymore. When your products sitting on a shelf, you're not there to tell the story in person and have that conversation with your customers. So your your packaging, your logo, your brand, really have to do all of the legwork for you.

Karyn Savory 14:21
That's very true. Oh, absolutely. I mean, ultimately, I mean as as humans we eat with our eyes, we're we're ultimately wired to respond to the visual world around us. So that's why you know, brands and your packaging they have so much influence on your customers and that's that's where the real labor does need to go. Absolutely. I love what you just said.

Sari 14:48
Yeah, cool. So what what do you love? Like what do you love about designing a logo and and what are some things that people can expect when they do hire a designer like yourself? Like, how do you take them through the process?

Unknown Speaker 15:02
Right? Well, I mean, yes, my number one love is logo design and branding. I just find it absolutely invigorating to kind of come up with the visuals and the overall image that ultimately defines your, your product or your service, and puts that personality to it, and really encapsulates your mission and your values. And that's just what I find so thrilling. Um, and as far as what to expect? For me, I have a very specific process when I go through a logo design project. And I think the key thing right off the bat is to make sure that they understand understand the brand, and everything that they're trying to achieve with the logo. So, a lot of times, I'll send out like a creative brief worksheet and just ask some standard questions like, Who's your target audience? Um, what's your mission? What's your industry? Everything like that, but there's so much more to it. And if I feel like, they may not have a really good handle on it, I'll usually, you know, really like to send them to a brand strategist who can really dive in and do a big strategy discovery session, and pull out all of those key things like your tone of voice, and your values, and your personality, and, and even some messaging, and that will really help me then move forward and work on the design process.

Sari 16:38
So okay, well, that's good to know. Yeah, cuz I mean, I don't think he'll mind us talking about him. He probably love it. But so we're working on a project together. For with Brian and Barfly salsa. So that's really one of the benefits when they work with a team like you and I is that we do that process together. And that's part of my process is that tone of voice and those branding, you know, all of those brand identity pieces and bringing out the mission and what's you know, uniquely defensible about, about the product so that you, as the designer, have, like, tons of information and resources to pull from and inspire you.

Karyn Savory 17:22
Yes, absolutely. I just think that's so important. And honestly, it'll, it'll make the process a lot more efficient and a lot more successful, if you can really knock those things off your list first. And then as we get into the design, that's where I have a lot of fun. I always sketch first, I think going back to pen and paper is just super cathartic, and, and wonderful. And so logo design is where I really get to do that. And then from there, you know, I'll usually pick out some certain designs that I feel are strong, and I'll provide, you know, anywhere from two to six, initial logo concepts, all very different, you know, based on everything that we've come up with, in our strategy session, and, you know, all the all the points that they're trying to hit, that's where, you know, there's gonna be a lot of variety as far as you know, different fonts that may may be to this specific audience or this or that and or illustration style, even formatting layout. So really try to, to provide a lot of variety, so that there's really a few different directions they can go but all that work within the brand and the strategy that we discussed ahead of time.

Sari 18:37
Yeah, and just like with Barfly salsa, I mean, we we worked on that target customer, which, I mean the dreaded words right and I can't say this enough times, but you know, everybody's going to love my salsa. And that gives you like nowhere to go as a designer, it gives you nothing, you know, nothing to focus in on and really be strategic about when you're trying to be everything to everyone, right? It's like, we know we need to define our target customer is a male and he's this age and he likes these brands, and then we can really start to create something that is going to be memorable and it doesn't mean that other people won't love that that branding as well. But you know, people really resist that that piece around wanting to really niche down and find one customer they I can't even

Karyn Savory 19:32
Yes they do.

Sari 19:33
I can't even tell you how much people resist this. But yes, and I know I get it. I do the same in my business. I'm like, but it's for everyone. I know. But then I can speak to with my identity with my logo with my colors with my fonts. I mean, all of it just helps us narrow in and I like to remind people like think about brands that you love. And think about are they really trying to are they speaking to you and why? And they're probably being really, really targeted. And you know, I always use the bar example, but you could use any, you know, over salsa, any kind of saturated brand out there, that, you know, if every bar company was just trying to be everything to everyone, it would get really muddy. But I can tell that, you know, our x bars are made for a certain type of customer. And that may not be speaking to me, but Kind Bar really does speak to me and what I'm looking for my you know, what my likes and dislikes. So

Karyn Savory 20:35
Yeah, absolutely.

Sari 20:36
Really important. Give your designer something to work with.

Karyn Savory 20:39
Yes. Find that ideal client, because that's really who's going to drive your business forward, if you can sell to them and try and sell to everybody is just, like you said, it muddies things up, it makes your messaging confusing. And it's just not worth it in the end, you really want to target all of that.

Sari 20:59
Yeah, yeah. I'd actually reminded me I did kind of a landscape report for a client once that was doing, like meat sticks and jerkies. And, as a great exercise, if to prove this point, maybe to some of you listening, if you're, you're still not convinced. Go look up, like beef sticks, and go on Instagram, and

Unknown Speaker 21:28
Okay I was like Google sounds like a scary place to do that. Don't look up beef sticks on Google.

Sari 21:32
Don't look on Google. Look it up on on Instagram, and, and you'll really see a visual difference between like Jack Links, and, you know, paleo vert brands, and then there's this one called Chomps, which is made for women that I was like, this feels really like the name Chomps doesn't feel in line with their target customer. But all of their branding very much was. To you know, there's lots of other brands out there Crave and anyway, like, just like that one type of product had so many different, they were definitely speaking to very different customers, right, the 13 year old boy who's gaming, and need's like his Slim Jim, versus the woman who is, you know, working out and on the go and a mother with her kids, and she's trying to eat healthier and eat paleo or something like that.

Unknown Speaker 22:30
Yeah. Very different.

Karyn Savory 22:30
So very, very different.

Sari 22:32
You're gonna have very different logos and very different colors and branding and all that stuff. So super fun. I could go on and on, but very. Um, so with that, then we can let's talk about like, I mean, I just mentioned color and fonts and things like that. So I, you know, one of the topics you want to talk about was color, which I love. That's so fun.

Karyn Savory 22:56
Yeah. It is.

Sari 22:58
Why is it important? How can it influence decision making?

Karyn Savory 23:02
Well I'll also go back one second to my logo design process, and just how once I've got the initial concepts, I will always present those in black and white. We always need to come up with your final logo in black and white so that as we design and as we pull things together to create something you're proud of color isn't influencing your decision in any way. And I think that's, you know, something unique that I do, but also, it's just so important because imagine if I were to give you four logo designs, and you know, there are different colors involved in each and maybe, maybe you don't like the color orange, and I've incorporated it in one of the stronger concepts. But because of that orange, you're not going to even decide to go that direction. So there's a lot of influence in color, even there just during the process. So I just wanted to point that out.

Sari 23:55
That was really, really different. Actually, that was a unique thing that that I've seen from you compared to some of the other designers I've worked with. And I made a ton of sense when you explain why both Brian and I were like, well, that's different, but it makes a ton of sense. Plus, every brand needs a black and white logo anyway. So it does need to be strong enough to stand on its own too.

Karyn Savory 24:19
Absolutely. Absolutely. And then, you know, as far as color goes, I just it's so important in marketing, in packaging, in branding in design overall. I mean, like I said, we eat with our eyes. So color is one of the first things that grabs our attention. And, you know, has so many different ways that it can affect us. So I mean, there's three that I really like to focus on and one is is emotional experiences. I mean, think about in your life, you know, maybe I don't know maybe you were watching a movie. And it's was sad. And then it was all involved with the ocean. So even sometimes the color blue may have, you know, this sad experience or loneliness tied to it. So you know, there's there's the emotional piece in our past experiences that definitely helped define that as well. And then, you know, culture culture is another huge way that color can affect us. So one of my favorite examples is, I mean, different colors have different meanings within different cultures, I think one of the most contrasting examples is actually black and white. So in our culture, you know, in the Western Hemisphere, um, white symbolizes things like weddings, peace, purity, cleanliness, while in Eastern cultures, white is actually more, you know, a little more depressing. It carries meanings of death and funerals and mourning. So there's a really big contrast there. Well, then black, you know, in Eastern culture portrays a sense of wealth, and health and richness and prosperity. While for us, it means that opposite that white does, you know, death, darkness, and demons. So I think that's kind of crazy. And definitely something you really need to keep in mind, when you're choosing a color palette, when you're choosing, you know, the colors that are going on to your packaging, especially if you're trying to replicate or, or speak to a specific culture.

Sari 26:31
Yeah, that's more knowing your target customer, again, very important to keep that in mind. And, you know, I think about black just that, I also think like, black can be very sophisticated, but sometimes it can be, you know, again, does your brand identity line up with that? Are you trying to be playful and blacks probably not the best color for you, right?

Unknown Speaker 26:54
Right, right. So there's, there's, you know, a plethora of different meanings behind a ton of different culture, colors, and the meanings behind them. Um, one last, you know, piece that I feel like affects us, as far as color is kind of the symbolism behind them. So I mean, think of just our daily life, you know, we are driving and, you know, we come up to a stoplight, and it's red, yellow, green, or green, yellow, red, and green means go, red means stop. So there are some actual, you know, things assigned to those colors and feelings and even actions. So, I mean, red is also the color of, you know, a lot of dangerous things. But then on the on the opposite side, love, love is usually represented by red, or passion. So it's just absolutely fascinating. Um, what color can do and bring to you.

Sari 27:09
I think I had read when I was actually during my Food Business Success, rebrand I was I initially I was going, I was like, I want bold, and I was looking at reds and golds. And I was reading some stuff about how, like, you know, you think about like fast food, like, most of it is red and gold. And I think it was something about like, yellow was kind of hunger. And then red was like bold action, you know, like, that passion and going after it. And so creating like cravings through using like, you know, Wendy's and McDonald's. Places use red and gold. I was like, oh my god.

Karyn Savory 28:35
It's considered a very appetizing color. Definitely. While yellow is very, you know, energetic and lively, but also friendly, friendly. And then red is just guiding. It's powerful. But there is that sense of, of, like, it stimulates your appetite or some reason.

Sari 28:56
Right. And I think it's important to really wonder if you can use a designer like yourself, that that understands even that food psychology piece, because it is different than just selling, you know, a piece of electronics or some other product. I had even read that like you shouldn't- and I be curious what you think about this- but blue, typically, people don't use a lot of blue around food. That actually, that color is an appetite suppressant. So they were saying like, if you want to limit your buffet consumption, even though we don't have buffets right now to choose a blue plate because it will actually like you won't be as like excited about your food plate.

Karyn Savory 29:47
Yeah, in the in the food industry. There's not that many. I mean, there's definitely the cross over you know, like teals or maybe even some some light blues or periwinkles, something like that. But you know, that bright blue, the Facebook blue, Intel blue, I feel like those are all colors that definitely the food industry steers away for away from because of that that, you know, idea that it is an appetite suppressant. And I mean, I think the biggest thing and why that is is because really, there's no such thing sd blue food naturally.

Sari 30:27
Exactly. Yeah, That's what I read. Like blueberries, but even they're more purple.

Karyn Savory 30:32
But they're more purple. Exactly.

Sari 30:34
And you actually you kind of, a lot of your work started out in the restaurant industry.

Karyn Savory 30:40
There are so many things that you can think about as far as menu design. And so a lot of those do correlate to package design, as well. So anything that will catch your customers, I first you know that whether that's the product name, the logo, just the color, if you've added some sort of illustration that's really gonna bring them in. And then from there, you need to move them through the label, the way that you like, the way that you would hope for them to read.

Sari 31:08
Exactly. So you're creating that that experience on purpose with with intention. And before we move on to label and packaging design, at the end, do you provide your process do you provide like branding standards, or some kind of document for the client then to take with them?

Karyn Savory 31:26
Yes, absolutely, with with all of my logo package projects, I will create just a usually just a standard brand guideline one sheet that has all of their colors with all the different breakdowns, so that you can use them across brands across digital, or, or even just on some merchandise, you know, if screen printers are going to print something, they want a very specific color. So that would be Pantone or PMS colors. So I provide all of that, as well as, once we've finished the logo, I will go through and I will come up with you know, excuse me, a selection of fonts that are consistent with your brand. And then those will be also applied to the brand guide on one sheet, as well as any symbols or other formats of logos that I've created, as well. So that'll all be there with all its usage notes and, and everything like that.

Sari 32:21
That's awesome. I mean, it's so important for people to take that and actually stick with it. I have worked with brand standards a long time and me, many came in multiple, multiple industries, but certainly a Whole Foods Market, brand standards were so important how we use the logo and the colors and and, you know, follow that, that marketing campaigns brand standards. And it's so important, I don't care how big or small you are that you are just being super consistent. Like, you have five colors that you've decided on with your, your designer, and you got to stick with those five colors. Like that's what helps people identify you, in all situations. You can't start bringing in other colors.

Karyn Savory 33:10
Exactly, there's a reason behind everything that we've done and it and it will ultimately, you know, make your brand exactly what you want it to be. And if you stray from the brand that we've created, I mean, oop, don't do that.

Sari 33:28
Yes, you paid some good money.

Karyn Savory 33:31
Yes, because the second you're inconsistent, once again, like I think I mentioned it earlier, I mean, your, your clients, your customers, everybody, they're going to get confused, because suddenly something isn't on brand, something isn't staying within, you know, your mission, your values. And suddenly, it's just confusing.

Sari 33:53
And this is honestly just if I can offer some tips for listeners, a couple of things I always recommend you do is get- and I'm sure you you do this and get people all the different types of files- but you need, you need your original design files, you need the EPS and the PDF and the transparent, you know, PNG, like, make sure you have all of that because nothing's worse when I go to put together a label or a sell sheet and all somebody has is a low resolution jpeg and I'm like where where's the files? And a lot of people don't you know, they don't they don't know anything about design. And again, maybe they're you know, their sister in law made something but they don't have all of these higher resolution files or a transparent one and it's, it can be a little painful to have to go back and find them,

Karyn Savory 34:48
Yes, oh my gosh!

Sari 34:50
when you finish with your designer,

Karyn Savory 34:52
I feel your pain.

Sari 34:52
yeah, make sure you just you get a Dropbox folder or something that has all of your formats and get all all of the different design files, like, I don't know, I feel like as a customer that they own their design files once they paid you, do you? Do you agree with that? Or?

Karyn Savory 35:10
Yes, they absolutely own everything. I think sometimes it just gets confusing as far as copyright law.

Sari 35:16
Right, right.

Karyn Savory 35:17
And ultimately, that comes down to the designer and the client and how you want to handle it. So because yeah, that's a whole

Sari 35:25
Yeah, we won't get into that. But I really think we're gonna have all those files. This is where you can use a program like Canva is fantastic for this where you have your brand, you know, you can put your fonts into Canva, you can put your brand colors into Canva has a whole place to do that. And you can upload your your logos, and that way you can create, especially social media is really what I'm talking about here, not your I wouldn't make your labels on

Yeah on social media for sure

Canva. But this is where I would recommend that this is where you can take all those brand standards and easily create social media images and things to be able to an even some website images and things that are all going to be in your brand package and your brand style is super important. I'll just throw that in as a note there.

Karyn Savory 36:20
But for anything else, you should probably try to go

Sari 36:22
Yeah, I mean, there's thing

Karyn Savory 36:24
that has a little bit more complicated layout.

Sari 36:26
Exactly. And certainly when we're talking labels and packaging, which is let's jump into that now. But you do still need to use a designer for that. I mean, just if I just throw out the word, you know, you need a bleed and outline fonts. Those are two things you cannot do in Canva. And, and those are things that designers know how to do.

Karyn Savory 36:48
Yes, prepping for print is a very big deal. And that's what you know, most, most designers have a very good, you know, hold hand hold on all of that and understand what what the printer needs, how to pre press a file, and really get it to the quality that you need it without any issues. Because how, how sucky would it be if you send something to print, and there was still an FBO fpo image? And when I say fpo I mean for placement only. So that is a low quality image that is just pixelated and is not, you know, press ready. I feel like there's so many times that that happens. And you've, you've spent thousands of dollars on a run of over 2000 pieces, and you have to do it all again. So it's so important to get it right the first time and to know work with people who know what their doing.

Sari 37:42
Absolutely, yeah. So this is a great place a tenant, I think we're you and I our work combines and creates a powerhouse around labels and packaging is yet you know, you want a strong brand and great designer, like yourself a graphic designer that understands label psychology and color psychology and the great logo. But unfortunately, when we talk about our packaging and labels, we also have this thing called the FDA that regulates our industry.

Karyn Savory 37:43
Yeah, that whole thing.

Sari 38:19
Right, it's kind of a bummer. For sure. And it can be a tough conversation I know I've had with people and we start talking about all the things that need to be on there. And they're like, but I have all this great marketing copy. Like, yeah, but yes, the FDA says that your marketing copy cannot trump their what is required by them. So unfortunately, that has to take a backseat. And so it's fun to be able to work with each other where we can I can give you the say whoops, no, this has to go here. This needs to be this size. But then we got to it's like a puzzle we're solving.

Karyn Savory 39:07
Absolutely a puzzle. Yes, I love that analogy.

Sari 39:10
We will fit it all on here or at least get the spirit of the marketing that we want. But we also have to work within the confines of the FDA. And you know, obviously the smaller

Karyn Savory 39:23
And the label size.

Sari 39:24
Yes, exactly. Like, depending on your product things get really, really small really fast. And so, yeah. So, so what other things do people need to think about when they're creating labels or packaging, besides of course, keeping the FDA in mind?

Karyn Savory 39:44
With your packaging, like I said, you know, all these different pieces, your fonts, your color, the layout, the imagery, it all works together to to elicit a specific reaction or decision from your customers. So all of that needs to be carefully considered. I think that one of the biggest things you could packaging that there's so much opportunity, though, we still need to get everything on there, and make sure that it, you know, applies to the guidelines and everything is is, is legit and kosher. So but you have room to play. I mean, as a designer, that's what we want to do, we want to make it stand out, they want to really put your product in the spotlight. So using things like, like custom, custom illustration, I think is a huge way to do that. Because, I mean, think of the the craft beer market right now, if you were to walk down the aisles, and just look around. Wow, it is an explosion of color, of style, and illustration, and so many different things are really drawing you in. And you know, each of those styles, each of those fonts, each of those colors, they will pull in your ideal customer. And I think really pulling that all together is your number one. Okay, I said number one was FDA but number two, if not number one way to get get your your packaging to just really stick out.

Sari 41:17
Yeah, absolutely. And I know you do custom illustration as well, which is really cool. But I think that's a great point, if I could just pull kind of pull it out is that you also need you do need to think about where who else you're going to be next to on the shelf and how how you are going to stand out. Because you can stand out in in a number of ways. Certainly your branding and your label. But even your packaging size, your packaging type. The I mean, we can also do things like foils or mats or you know, the feel of the actual product.

Karyn Savory 41:56
Oh, yes.

Sari 41:58
Right. You're like, Oh my gosh,

Karyn Savory 41:59
Absolutely. That's like a giant designer's dream is to be able to apply all those wonderful printing techniques like yes, the the embossed, or the foil or even neon glow in the dark, you can get really crazy with some things and even special die cuts. So you know, the different shapes for your labels that will really make it pop.

Sari 42:22
Yeah, that's true about a label doesn't have to be a rectangle, it can have different shapes popping out of it. And you know, depending on your package, of course, but and that's true for pre printed, like, if you're doing pouches or something, you can have the see through window, but it doesn't just have to be a whole like a circle. It could be a shape, it could be mountains. Pretty much anything your designer comes up with, which is amazing.

Karyn Savory 42:48
Yeah. And there's so much that we can do I mean, and also even going to the barcode. The barcode doesn't have to be boring, you guys.

Sari 42:58
That's true. I've seen some cool things.

Karyn Savory 42:59
You can do so much with your barcode. Yeah. I mean, like, there's a few whiskey companies out there that I've noticed. They're their barcodes are super cool, whether they're mountains or they're a barrel, you know, they're they're things you can do with every little piece of your packaging that it's just those little details that that make people go, Oh, cool. I love how they did that.

Sari 43:22
Right. Right. I love it. Yeah, especially if your target customer is gonna appreciate that. You definitely want to take some extra extra time on that. And I will just make a note though, like barcodes that is where people get into trouble because designers don't know they just make them as small as they want to, to fit on the package. And you know, I know I worked with a gal who had to reprint all the barcodes and stick them on to the labels because they were too small and they would not scan. So be very, very careful when resizing barcodes. So work with the designer.

Karyn Savory 43:59
Very careful. They have to be scannable you guys. The have to be scannable.

You just paid $250 for 10 barcodes and now they don't work and you have to get new barcode. I know you did such a nice job. I really appreciate this about how you present your work is you kind of group things into packages. I don't know maybe it's just me, but I kind of hate it when the kind of more artistic areas of of this industry or you know, photography is a good one where it's like, you have no idea what things are going to cost and you're on their website and you're just like, can you just give me an idea of like, how much? You know, am I in the ballpark like even something I should consider? Especially for new entrepreneurs who are just getting into this making it very friendly and straightforward.

My logo packages and kind of a few different tiers there as far as what they're looking for. But the second you do start to add the more complicated, more complex design elements like custom illustration, that is really setting apart your brand because it's unique to you, that will definitely be an additional cost. And honestly that, that pricing will come from a conversation is the how, how complex? How detailed are these illustrations or elements going to be, you know, if it's going to actually require me to get out my watercolor paper or paper and do a painting that will take a lot of significant amount of time versus just digital illustrations or icons, and things like that. So there is a lot, there's a big range that that we can work with. But I do try to have that conversation really get a good understanding so that I can provide the most accurate pricing.

Sari 45:55
Yeah, perfect. I love that. But I do love that, yeah, you kind of have these packages. And then. And then of course, if people work with us inside Food Business Success, we kind of have a particular package that's already set up in there, too, which is great. But go ahead and tell us a little bit about where people can, can find you. And if you want to talk about your services a little bit more this is your, your place to do so.

Karyn Savory 46:22
Yeah, of course, well, I'll go ahead and start with my services. Um, like we've kind of gone over, throughout the conversation, my big areas that I focus in are our logo design and branding, then package design, label design, and then and custom illustration. So those are my three big areas that I just, I love and I know, I can help and make it super exactly aligned with your brand and everything. Um, and the, I guess I'll put out there my ideal client as well as your target audience, right. I work strictly with food and beverage industry. And so that includes anybody, you know, restaurants, other food service businesses, bars, markets, grocers, and then all the way to consumer packaged goods, like we've been discussing. And then even distilleries, breweries, wineries, food trucks, you name it, if it's food related, I'll know. And then as far as where you can find me, obviously, number one, my website sweet,, as well as Instagram at Sweet and Savory Designs. And Facebook is probably the last one where you can really find me but Instagram and my website are really the best places to hit.

Sari 47:52
Great. Awesome. And you you did offer a very generous offer here for listeners of the podcast.

Karyn Savory 48:01
Absolutely. So yeah, for any listeners that are interested in either, you know, logo design, full rebrand, or just even a simpler brand refresh, if they contact me and mentioned you in the Food Business Success podcast, then I will give them 20% off a logo package, which is

Sari 48:22
super generous for sure. Or they can come work with me and and we can work with you through Food Business Success, too. So lots of ways to work with you.

Karyn Savory 48:33
Yeah, I can't say how important it is to work with somebody like Sari, as a as a business food business consultant. She just has so much experience. And we'll get you on the right foot.

Sari 48:45
Thank you. Yes, we want to be sure there's those barcode scan and the nutrition facts panel is right size and all that good stuff.

Karyn Savory 48:55
Another way you can at least hear more about what I'm doing or learn some really cool design, you know, pieces about branding, or even just anything related to the food industry. I have my my own monthly newsletter called the Tasty Tidbits. And so if you guys go on onto my website, and actually have the link there that you can add in the show notes, and subscribe to my blog, you'll also get a free recipe for a successful brand.

Sari 49:23
Perfect, yes, we'll make sure all those links are in the show notes and you guys can head over and take a look at some of Karyn's work. Well I've been ending all my podcasts my interviews with with people asking them you know, I'm quoting from Michele Norris. You know, we're in this time of COVID and a rapidly changing environment and an ad adapting let me get the word out, right. So her quote was, "Let's not strive for normal, let's strive for better." So I would love to hear how you think we are going to be better as a as an industry here in 2020 in our current circumstances.

Karyn Savory 50:11
Oh, gosh, yes, well, first of all, I guess I want to say My heart goes out to the restaurant industry, it has been hit so hard. So hard. And unfortunately, I think there's a lot that is going to change and there is a new normal, that's going to happen, especially in that industry. But, you know, it really makes you think, as a business owner, you know, how can I make this work, and really, you need to be open to change, you need to be open to adapting to a new normal. And, and even just adjusting your marketing techniques, or even heck your menus. So whether that at least with the restaurants, you know, narrowing down your menu to make it easier to deliver anything like that there's a lot there. But one way that I've seen some really awesome ideas come out of restaurants is, you know, some of the chefs are going online, and they're doing cooking tutorials, or sharing their recipes. And I just think that's such a fun way to engage with their audience, and just remind people that they're still there and give them a way to support them. Another way is even, like, starting to package bottle and sell their sauces, you know? Think of that special sauce that you love from your restaurant, imagine if they were to bottle it up and sell it online, that's another great avenue to get, get that revenue back up. And then, you know, with, with packaged design and consumer packaged goods, I feel like luckily, that industry is still booming, because online is a really great place to sell. But at the same time, you know, it's not the same as selling, selling on a shelf, you know, you can't stand out that way. So you got to find a way to, to bring your brand to the forefront, and really get your consumers involved and engaging with your product. That's, it's been a really eye opening experience to see how people have have shifted and really strive for, for something new. But honestly, if you added on top of everything, if we go back to our other normal, then you've got a whole new normal, and it all combines into this wonderful marketing showcase.

Sari 52:39
Right? I love what you said about like, chefs going online. And I do think, you know, we're all especially when we were all sheltering in place and things, you know, people were filming live video making food, you know, and they're just in their house and it kind of like, they're in their home kitchen. And we got a sense of, I don't know, it kind of made a deeper connection, maybe with our food and the people who are making it. Like we're all in this together. And yeah,

Karyn Savory 53:11
Absolutely. No, I think that's such a great point. It also provides, you know, it makes them more, it makes them more human. It's just that personal touch and you kind of forget that we're all just human.

Sari 53:25
Yeah, yeah, really. I mean, I thought that was just a lot of fun. And I you know, nobody could do really Polish branding, like, especially videos and you know, new marketing and things because nobody could go anywhere. So yeah, I was watching right there cats walking on the counter and like, we're all being human and and we're all I think food is the great connector.

Karyn Savory 53:53
Yes, I like to say that that food is I mean, all of it food and beverage. It's it's nourishing in so many ways more than just, you know, physiologically, um, but you know, it's, it's nourishing emotionally, it's nourishing socially. You know, it brings people together.

Sari 54:15
If you had like that one piece of advice to someone just starting out, they have a great idea or they're ready to move their product from the farmer's market they want to get on the store shelves, online shelves, what would be that one piece of advice you would offer?

Karyn Savory 54:31
I think we'll just have to go back to the beginning of our conversation and say that your brand is the most important one of the most important investments in your business. So you know, really be open to fully embrace that process and build a brand that not only you're proud of, but one that is effective. So just just remember that.

Sari 54:55
There there are investments like if you are really serious about you know about your business there, there are key investments that you do need to make. You're not going to start a business with no money just isn't going to happen in this industry. So

Karyn Savory 55:12
Unfortunately not that case.

Sari 55:13
No. Definitely not so. So yeah, this, your branding, your logo, your labels, packaging, super important to invest in this area. Because it's what's going to connect with your customers and really speak to them when you're not there to speak to them in person. Well, great. Well, thank you so much, Karen, for your time today.

Awesome. Thank you so much Sari. I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much for joining me today. What a great conversation and until next time, have a fantastic week.

Are you ready to start that delicious idea that you make in your home kitchen, or grow your existing packaged food business and take it to the next level? The most successful food business entrepreneurs have support, guidance, focus and accountability to help them make it happen quickly without wasting time or money. Plus, I think starting your packaged food business should actually be fun. Food Business Success is your secret ingredient to creating your food business dream. Please don't go this alone. Check out the private free Food Business Success Facebook group to connect with other foodprenuers, get your questions answered quickly, share your wins and receive special training and tools I only share inside the private community. Just search for Food Business Success on Facebook, or get the link in the show notes. Curious about how Food Business Success can help you? Head over to and fill out the application to see if you're a great fit for the program. Together let's make your food business dream a reality.


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